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Just returned from Glock v MaAGO- Here's the hearing in a nutshell:

2016.10.19 23:45 50calPeephole Just returned from Glock v MaAGO- Here's the hearing in a nutshell:

Hey guys, sorry for the rough unpolished feel to this post, but I'm still in town trying to give you the freshest information about whats up, I will edit this later in the evening, and hopefully upload an audio recording:
Opening Arguments
Glock:
The Glock v ma controversy started way back in 2004, while there is long history which glock highlighted, I am not that fast of a typer- as such, Glock said that their pistols are unsafe by MA regulations because they do not have components they should have in MA:
  1. Mag disconnecter- Glock summarized all the reasons why NOT to have a disconnect, and then slammed home disconnects are not about firearm safety and actually make firearms more dangerous to the user.
  2. Loaded chamber indicator- there are many types that tell a user that a chamber is loaded. Glock argues the most effective method is the press check which requires pulling the slide back. I was a bit disappointed they didn’t highlight a rule of firearms safety for loaded weapons, but hey whatever. Glock continued that in ’04/’05 glock was invited to talk with the AGO and brought experts from across the country who argued for them that the mag disconnect and loaded chamber indicator are NOT SAFETIES and do not make a firearm safe. Glock also briefly touched on their being told to mark the loaded chamber indicator with red paint, which they did and were still found to be uncompliant.
The judge interrupted glock at this point and told them that their attempts to appease AGO over indicators were interesting but not relevant, Glock contended that we’re trying to outline the history of the glock/ago relationship.
Glock moved on to 2016, they are still not allowed to sell to MA consumers. Nationwide info about the lawsuits, design changes, and warranty issues that Glocks received are not relevant and an attempted portrayal that glock doesn’t honor its warranty and it does. Furthermore, glock feels that by handing over their information they are violating their company’s guarantee to their consumers.
Glock continued to argue- The AG made the determination that glock was unsafe in 2004, Glock disagrees but follows MA rules. Distributers are notified not to sell to MA consumers. Then states that our AG powers are broad, but how broad? Are we stretching power to give all information nationwide whether it pertains to MA or not. They argued that Glock got the death penalty back in ’04 in MA and there are no more sales in MA.
The judge then asks- The CID file says there are 8-10k Glocks in ma- however it occurred, if a consumer has a glock, claims it as defective, can they sue Glock in ma?
Glocks response “Absolutely, breach of warranty can be sued anywhere”
Judge then asks- If consumers can bring product liability suits, why can’t the AGO investigate?
Glock-There is wisdom there, when you look at the valcom? Affidavit, I see 10,800 glock guns sold. Next figure is 8k with no occupation, no info on private sales, so the AGO affidavit is misleading. Glock tried to get additional info, if guns are being sold illegally- and glock wants to help the AGO. But what we have here is 3 non-MA claims by the AGO that this case bases on that are not MA consumer claims.
There is no claim you are not working warranty claims, or misleading advertising, but we have 3-4 claims out of 12,000,000 guns sold outside of MA. So what is the motivation? AG motivation- While at the Whitehouse AGO called out glock days before the CID. December 2015- ago sent retailers for investigation for glock firearms.
Judge then inquired: Regardless of glock being target, will the CID be used as target for other investigations against retailers.
Glock responded that the The CID must be relevant to what is being investigated- Warranty claims have nothing to do with who is illegally selling glock pistols in MA if it is in fact happening. When someone starts a nationwide search ask “what is the motivation?” AGO is not the legislature, yet her comments are that nobody else is stepping up to control guns, therefore it is her moral imperative. She has stated that PLACCA rule should be overturned. If it is the will of the people there should be federal legislation, but again we’re facing AGO preference.
Glock continued: We are a safe gun- we are in the holsters for 100 leo agency’s in MA including BPD. We will not sell out for paint. The hours alone to do this is counteractive to 26c- What is going on here is nothing short of harassment. AGO is not legislature, AGO does not make the law, even if the AGO does not like it. Glock can’t do what the relief says, ‘we’re on double secret probation. Conversations with AGO “a stonewall”. Glock trying to help and has had a bad response. Nothing AGO has said says anything about the CID submitted to glock, we (glock) are being bused.
End Glock’s arguments
AGO: This CID is at face value, not a façade. The question of interest is to help evaluate violations of sales under the CMR.
Judge interrupt: Under regs, is glock an arms purveyor?
AGO: Correct (I have typed “cirect” not sure what that means, audio transcript may help clarify.
Judge- is your investigation related to whether glock is violating that regulation?
AGO- No, if we were bringing claims they would be under 93a of our consumer safety problems.
Judge- You say 8-10k glocks in MA and you have right/obligation to investigate their safety.
AGO- Yes, sale of glock firearms violates 93a
Judge- Yes, but right now you have no reason to think glock sold those guns?
AGO- Sales are indisputable violations. The claims we investigate are two fold- We are investigating present guns in the commonwealth, and we’re entitled to investigate their safety.
Judge- Regardless if glock sold those guns, just because the guns are here you think you have standing?
AGO- Ag- glock has had recalls, we need to know if any of those firearms are present in MA or notice in general. And whether those recalls were notified for MA constituents and what to do with those 8k guns.
Judge- 8k in civilian hands?
AGO: 10,800 sales between 2014 and 2015, appears 8k to civilians. 2k to leo, we need to deal with these guns to figure out an appropriate remedy. We may need to notify owners these guns are potentially unsafe. If we were talking about phones that catch on fire, if phones burn in NY we don’t have to wait for a MA problem to start working on a solution.
Jude- under regs, glock may and does sell guns to leo in ma. Would the leo’s be consumers that are entitled to the consumer protection act?
Ago0 in some cases it may be possible, blah bla
Judge- regardless departments are consumers?
Ago glock makes a big deal of bpd using glocks- 80h of training is required for bpd to have a firearm, consumers are not subject to the same law. There are problems with glock in NY and guns were going off without intent. Portland Oregon 2 instances of catastrophic failure, Indianapolis recalled glocks for safety issues regarding slide.
Also would like to say discussion about public statements about enforcing gun laws is irrelevant. AGO respects and understands second amendment and is not looking to take guns but want to make sure guns in ma are safe and are not creating undue risks for bystanders. (Emphasis mine)
Rebuttal: Glock
Glock- I think what was said is telling
We have allegedly 8-10k glocks in commonwealth, question is AGO wants national records at high cost for the end game to be to send a letter to owners that says “you got an unsafe gun”. Well, we already have that according to AGO as evidenced by the law that is in standing. Why not just send the letter without sequestering this information. I‘d love to sit with the AGO and work on such a letter to send out in Ma, there is a way to do this without a CID. We sell 12,000,000 pistols, in officer involved shootings casings hit officers in every shooting, it’s universal, and it is a mirage to play things up to say it is unsafe. Send letters, we’ll work on content with AGO.
Judge 1 last question. Motion to consolidate- AGO not consolidating with Remington? Remington transferred here recently (Remington court date 10/26)
Glock- gives judge Texas order where he discusses AGO energy opinion. For consideration
End of hearing.
submitted by 50calPeephole to Firearms [link] [comments]


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